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Online alternaloser  
#161 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:13:38 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ronnyboy Go to Quoted Post
great rationale for muslim suicide bombers too.



do they not know how to draw parallels where you are from? you're turrble at it.
Online dlm  
#162 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:13:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ronnyboy Go to Quoted Post
great rationale for muslim suicide bombers too.



i didn't adopt the rationale, i'm just saying it exists. once again, you didn't answer the question. which should i do?

1. bomb
2. scream at people
3. support adoption
4. vote for pro-lifers
5. nothing

please do not pick a choice that would require me to cherry pick
Online ronnyboy  
#163 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:15:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dlm Go to Quoted Post
you keep saying that your way is better, but every time something leaning toward your way is tried, it's actually not better. but this time i should believe you, right?


so now "leaning towards my way" = the shitty watered down ACA?

yes, the ACA helped people that couldnt get coverage in the past, but at a great cost to people who had good affordable health care. I wouldnt have supported the ACA after the bluedog dems andtheir rich financiers gutted it.

MY WAY, and the way bernie has been talking about for 30 years, if single payer health care, much like elsewhere in the world.
Online dlm  
#164 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:17:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ronnyboy Go to Quoted Post
so now "leaning towards my way" = the shitty watered down ACA?

yes, the ACA helped people that couldnt get coverage in the past, but at a great cost to people who had good affordable health care. I wouldnt have supported the ACA after the bluedog dems andtheir rich financiers gutted it.

MY WAY, and the way bernie has been talking about for 30 years, if single payer health care, much like elsewhere in the world.


so if you were in congress during the ACA passage, you would have voted against it and let all those sick and/or poor people remain fucked? wow, harsh dude
Online ronnyboy  
#165 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:18:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dlm Go to Quoted Post
it helped some, but not enough. right? we still need single payer, right? if we do, then it didn't help enough people, and i am personally paying a very high price for sort of helping some people.

it seems like you are saying the dick in my ass only hurts because it's not deep ENOUGH


blame money in politics and it's influence of your leaders for that one...

majority of americans... a FAR majority of them... would benefit from single payer, and if the legislators in this country actually represented the majority of people, this would not even be an issue.

Online dlm  
#166 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:21:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ronnyboy Go to Quoted Post
blame money in politics and it's influence of your leaders for that one...

majority of americans... a FAR majority of them... would benefit from single payer, and if the legislators in this country actually represented the majority of people, this would not even be an issue.



even though i hate my current premium, i would rather pay it than have free health care if i have to change doctors. my doctor is now 30 miles away from me on the opposite side of indianapolis but i still go to him because i have a family member with a severe chronic idiopathic illness and starting over with a new doctor would likely entail years of them fucking around until they figure out what my doctor already knows and understands.

what is your precious single-payer going to do about that? or should i not care because my family's lives aren't as important as millions of poor people?
Online ronnyboy  
#167 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:53:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dlm Go to Quoted Post
even though i hate my current premium, i would rather pay it than have free health care if i have to change doctors. my doctor is now 30 miles away from me on the opposite side of indianapolis but i still go to him because i have a family member with a severe chronic idiopathic illness and starting over with a new doctor would likely entail years of them fucking around until they figure out what my doctor already knows and understands.

what is your precious single-payer going to do about that? or should i not care because my family's lives aren't as important as millions of poor people?


so youre telling me it would take years for your current doctor to explain to another qualified doctor what he or she already knows about an illness, and the best treatment, for your family member?

id say your doctor is useless if he or she cannot adequately convey information to another doctor...

also... in all the countries ive lived which have had single payer health care (Canada, the UK, and Israel), i have never been bound to a doctor because of geographic location... so im not sure why you think that single payer here would have that restriction...

Online dlm  
#168 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 3:14:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ronnyboy Go to Quoted Post
so youre telling me it would take years for your current doctor to explain to another qualified doctor what he or she already knows about an illness, and the best treatment, for your family member?

id say your doctor is useless if he or she cannot adequately convey information to another doctor...

also... in all the countries ive lived which have had single payer health care (Canada, the UK, and Israel), i have never been bound to a doctor because of geographic location... so im not sure why you think that single payer here would have that restriction...



i'm saying that wouldn't be sufficient. you seem like you've never met a doctor before. i'm not telling you my family's medical history, suffice to say that doctors all over the country have struggled with this particular issue and because of that, i want MY fucking doctor and not the doctor the government tells me i have to use for whatever reason. if there is a 0.001% chance of me losing that doctor, i will muster all my feeble political influence against that for the rest of my life. sorry, my job is to look out for my family first.
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#169 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 5:43:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dlm Go to Quoted Post
i'm saying that wouldn't be sufficient. you seem like you've never met a doctor before. i'm not telling you my family's medical history, suffice to say that doctors all over the country have struggled with this particular issue and because of that, i want MY fucking doctor and not the doctor the government tells me i have to use for whatever reason. if there is a 0.001% chance of me losing that doctor, i will muster all my feeble political influence against that for the rest of my life. sorry, my job is to look out for my family first.


youre ridiculous

no, i dont believe that some GP from indiana somehow is the miracle healer for your family, and that he or she has the magic medicine or treatment that no one else can prescribe...

also, i still dont know why you think that somehow single payer will dictate which doctor you can see or not.

on the contrary, would seem to me like dysfunctional private insurance, and the ability of doctors, hospital groups, etc, can choose not to take certain insurances, would create situations where people are limited to the doctors who do take their insurance...

in a public, universal, medicare for all system, it would make sense that all doctors would be able to treat all patients...

Online ronnyboy  
#170 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 6:19:21 PM(UTC)
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a bit old, from 2014

but still relevant

Online ronnyboy  
#171 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 6:29:53 PM(UTC)
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here is one without the commentary

Online dlm  
#172 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 6:38:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ronnyboy Go to Quoted Post
youre ridiculous

no, i dont believe that some GP from indiana somehow is the miracle healer for your family, and that he or she has the magic medicine or treatment that no one else can prescribe...

also, i still dont know why you think that somehow single payer will dictate which doctor you can see or not.

on the contrary, would seem to me like dysfunctional private insurance, and the ability of doctors, hospital groups, etc, can choose not to take certain insurances, would create situations where people are limited to the doctors who do take their insurance...

in a public, universal, medicare for all system, it would make sense that all doctors would be able to treat all patients...



i'm not saying he is a magic healer. i have seen the difference between good doctors who know you and care about you, versus mediocre doctors who don't. when you have a serious idiopathic problem, that is VERY valuable
Online ronnyboy  
#173 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 6:49:43 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dlm Go to Quoted Post
i'm not saying he is a magic healer. i have seen the difference between good doctors who know you and care about you, versus mediocre doctors who don't. when you have a serious idiopathic problem, that is VERY valuable


well, of course.

Im just saying that your fear of not being able to access your preferred doctor is irrational... and hardly a good reason to be afraid of single payer.

i can appreciate willing to turn the world upside down for a loved one, but id hope that irrational fears of impending doom are reigned in when considering options.

idk, this convo has taken a weird, personal turn. Shit isnt any of my business.

bottom line: health care in america is not only more expensive, but it is less efficient, effective, and accessible for most people.

we can do better, and at worst, we can adopt one of the many systems employed around the world which do it better than we do.
Online ronnyboy  
#174 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 6:54:26 PM(UTC)
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ive got a federal employment plan through BCBS...

the nightmare i had to go through when I got bit by a dog last year when i went to an in network hospital that hired outsourced doctors from a medical group that was not in network, resulted with those fuckers dropping a ridiculous bill onto me, as if I was supposed to ask if the in network hospital i went to was going to have an out of network doctor treat me.

ill spare you the sob story, but if i wasnt a neurotic jew who wasnt going to take it up the ass by these cunts, i would have had to pay that bill. It took weeks of calls, emails, letters, to everyone short of my congressman to have some resolution to the case.

Most people dont have the time or will to put up such a fight, and they shouldnt have to.

the american system is broken. It doesnt work well. it needs to be changed.
Online dlm  
#175 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 7:50:35 PM(UTC)
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i dont think being concerned about losing my privilege to choose my own doctor or what services i can receive is irrational at all. if health care is provided by the government, it will be reasonable to expect the government will decide what i can and cant receive. i would rather make that choice myself and accept the cost.

you can promise me all day that stuff won't happen, but i was also promised that if i liked my plan i could keep it (i couldnt keep it)
Online ronnyboy  
#176 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 8:32:40 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dlm Go to Quoted Post
i dont think being concerned about losing my privilege to choose my own doctor or what services i can receive is irrational at all. if health care is provided by the government, it will be reasonable to expect the government will decide what i can and cant receive. i would rather make that choice myself and accept the cost.

you can promise me all day that stuff won't happen, but i was also promised that if i liked my plan i could keep it (i couldnt keep it)


so youre bitter that your health insurance provider stopped offering a plan because it now had to offer it to others as well, and because it meant them making less money, they didnt? Maybe your problem is with a for profit insurance system which isnt in the business of health care, but share holder profits. Just one more reason why SOME industries, including health care, should not be for profit, and should be publicly owned and controlled.

and yes, it is an irrational fear.. because the government in canada doesnt decide what medical treatment people need, the doctors in canada decide that. your irrational fear of the big bad government is silly, especially when it comes to this, considering that health insurance providers actually do decide what treatment people can or should receive.

Online dlm  
#177 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 8:36:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ronnyboy Go to Quoted Post
so youre bitter that your health insurance provider stopped offering a plan because it now had to offer it to others as well, and because it meant them making less money, they didnt? Maybe your problem is with a for profit insurance system which isnt in the business of health care, but share holder profits. Just one more reason why SOME industries, including health care, should not be for profit, and should be publicly owned and controlled.

and yes, it is an irrational fear.. because the government in canada doesnt decide what medical treatment people need, the doctors in canada decide that. your irrational fear of the big bad government is silly, especially when it comes to this, considering that health insurance providers actually do decide what treatment people can or should receive.



cool, i dont believe you. i just gave an example of a specific lie i was told in the last 10 years on this very subject
Online ronnyboy  
#178 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 8:51:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dlm Go to Quoted Post
cool, i dont believe you. i just gave an example of a specific lie i was told in the last 10 years on this very subject


who lied and what did they lie about?

what? obama saying youll be able to keep your insurance plan? what exactly stopped you from keeping your plan? the ACA or the insurance company not offering that policy anymore?

your approach to all of this is childish as fuck.
Online dlm  
#179 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 9:20:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ronnyboy Go to Quoted Post
who lied and what did they lie about?

what? obama saying youll be able to keep your insurance plan? what exactly stopped you from keeping your plan? the ACA or the insurance company not offering that policy anymore?

your approach to all of this is childish as fuck.


hahaha youre so mad i dont agree with you about health care policy.

and to be specific, the plan i had was discontinued because the ACA declared it did not include the right array of benefits to meet the individual mandate. so try to spin that as being the company's fault
Online ronnyboy  
#180 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 9:28:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dlm Go to Quoted Post
hahaha youre so mad i dont agree with you about health care policy.

and to be specific, the plan i had was discontinued because the ACA declared it did not include the right array of benefits to meet the individual mandate. so try to spin that as being the company's fault


Im not mad. I have good health insurance for very cheap.

im disappointed, but not mad.

you sound childish, digging your heels in, resisting progress.
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