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Online dlm  
#141 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 1:48:24 PM(UTC)
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dlm


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on the other hand, here is an idea that tends to resonate with adults:

how about i believe all those things personally, and then i evaluate each issue to determine whether or not government policy is the best avenue to effectuate the cultural change (or lack of change) i support? you could call that "cherry picking" i suppose, but wouldn't that be a more rational way to pursue the things i believe in? wouldn't it be smart to be practical about these types of things?

or are you one of those extremist retards who would vote against someone you agree with 75% of the time because you don't agree with them 100% of the... oh wait nevermind
Online ronnyboy  
#142 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 1:50:03 PM(UTC)
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ronnyboy


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Originally Posted by: dlm Go to Quoted Post
that's pretty fucking juvenile and simplistic. are you sure? because that means in order to get me to a vague "it should be a right but we aren't sure how to make it happen" position on health care, you're OK with:

1. banning legal abortion even in cases of rape and incest
2. banning gay marriage
3. banning all forms of contraception
4. banning all sexual relations outside of marriage
5. no recognition of transgenderism whatsoever (other than as a mental illness like homosexuality)

i could go on...


who are you to cherry pick which parts of the religion you want to follow though?

Im an atheist. I dont follow irrational religious doctrine blindly. I like empirical evidence. I like science. I draw conclusions based on those variables, as well as universal morality. Youre the "christian" between the two of us, but your christianity extends only so far, and in certain directions, coming short of what seems to be very important for your spiritual leader (health care and reforming capitalism).

Online dlm  
#143 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 1:51:33 PM(UTC)
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dlm


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Originally Posted by: ronnyboy Go to Quoted Post
who are you to cherry pick which parts of the religion you want to follow though?

Im an atheist. I dont follow irrational religious doctrine blindly. I like empirical evidence. I like science. I draw conclusions based on those variables, as well as universal morality. Youre the "christian" between the two of us, but your christianity extends only so far, and in certain directions, coming short of what seems to be very important for your spiritual leader (health care and reforming capitalism).



it's funny how you think one's spiritual life is played out 100% through politics, as if there is nothing else to life. i just explained how grown-ups approach these issues. i don't expect you to understand. i expect you to dismiss it all out of hand with "you're a hypocrite" because you aren't very sophisticated
Online dlm  
#144 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 1:52:25 PM(UTC)
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dlm


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(i don't cherry pick what parts of the religion i follow. i cherry pick what parts of the religion i should support as government policies depending on various factors)
Offline tahiti  
#145 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 1:52:28 PM(UTC)
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I like empirical evidence. I like science.

also subjective things like universal morality
Online ronnyboy  
#146 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 1:54:07 PM(UTC)
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ronnyboy


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Originally Posted by: dlm Go to Quoted Post
on the other hand, here is an idea that tends to resonate with adults:

how about i believe all those things personally, and then i evaluate each issue to determine whether or not government policy is the best avenue to effectuate the cultural change (or lack of change) i support? you could call that "cherry picking" i suppose, but wouldn't that be a more rational way to pursue the things i believe in? wouldn't it be smart to be practical about these types of things?

or are you one of those extremist retards who would vote against someone you agree with 75% of the time because you don't agree with them 100% of the... oh wait nevermind


i dont agree with bernie 100% of the time.

i dont agree with jill stein 100% of the time.

I dont disagree with trump 100% of the time.

but does it embarrass you that bernie has more in common with pope francis than most politicians, including people youd vote for?
Online ronnyboy  
#147 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 1:56:25 PM(UTC)
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ronnyboy


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Originally Posted by: dlm Go to Quoted Post
(i don't cherry pick what parts of the religion i follow. i cherry pick what parts of the religion i should support as government policies depending on various factors)


how convenient.

(bad christian)
Online dlm  
#148 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 1:57:37 PM(UTC)
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dlm


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Originally Posted by: ronnyboy Go to Quoted Post
i dont agree with bernie 100% of the time.

i dont agree with jill stein 100% of the time.

I dont disagree with trump 100% of the time.

but does it embarrass you that bernie has more in common with pope francis than most politicians, including people youd vote for?


no, why would it? i'm not sure if that is 100% true considering the pope's fairly unpublicized positions on social issues, but even if i take your claim at face value, you don't understand how popes work. i'm not bound to support single-payer if the pope supports single-payer any more than i am bound to support his favorite soccer team. i do generally agree with him (and the church's teaching for the last 2000 years) that humans owe each other the dignity of meeting the corporal needs of all. i just go about that in ways you don't personally like.
Online dlm  
#149 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 1:58:47 PM(UTC)
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dlm


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Originally Posted by: ronnyboy Go to Quoted Post
how convenient.

(bad christian)


i think abortion is murder. do you think i should:

1. bomb abortion clinics
2. stand outside abortion clinics and scream "MURDERER" in the faces of the clientele
3. support alternatives such as adoption
4. vote for pro-life candidates
5. do nothing

under your logic, anything short of #1 is me cherry picking
Online ronnyboy  
#150 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:00:20 PM(UTC)
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ronnyboy


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Originally Posted by: dlm Go to Quoted Post
it's funny how you think one's spiritual life is played out 100% through politics, as if there is nothing else to life. i just explained how grown-ups approach these issues. i don't expect you to understand. i expect you to dismiss it all out of hand with "you're a hypocrite" because you aren't very sophisticated


"prolife for unborn babies; i only care about my health care, fuck sick and/or poor people"
Online alternaloser  
#151 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:03:28 PM(UTC)
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ronnyboy's achromatopsia strikes again
Online ronnyboy  
#152 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:03:40 PM(UTC)
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ronnyboy


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Originally Posted by: dlm Go to Quoted Post
i think abortion is murder. do you think i should:

1. bomb abortion clinics
2. stand outside abortion clinics and scream "MURDERER" in the faces of the clientele
3. support alternatives such as adoption
4. vote for pro-life candidates
5. do nothing

under your logic, anything short of #1 is me cherry picking


doing 1 would be in violation of other parts of your religion.

Online dlm  
#153 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:05:43 PM(UTC)
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dlm


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Originally Posted by: ronnyboy Go to Quoted Post
"prolife for unborn babies; i only care about my health care, fuck sick and/or poor people"


never said fuck sick and/or poor people. you want me to say that because that's the cartoon character you have developed in your head. i said that me paying 4x what i used to for health care doesn't seem to be helping the sick and/or poor people that much like people said it would, so why in the fuck should i support paying 8x what i used to, or being forced onto government insurance who will deprive me of my chosen doctor who knows my family's health issues, on the *promise* that this time, it really will help the sick and/or poor people

truth is, i happen to think the sick and/or poor people (especially in this country) already have plenty of options available to them, and we should focus on connecting the resource to the need rather than squeezing more and more resources out of the middle class self-insured that never seem to make it to where it is needed anyway, and if more resources are needed, to take them from those who can afford them more than the middle class self-insured, which is a tiny little fraction of the population

you'd like for me to be the fat cat millionaire that you have caricatured into a monster so much, but i'm just not
Online dlm  
#154 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:07:02 PM(UTC)
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dlm


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Originally Posted by: ronnyboy Go to Quoted Post
doing 1 would be in violation of other parts of your religion.



lethal force is permitted in self-defense or defense of others
Online ronnyboy  
#155 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:07:44 PM(UTC)
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ronnyboy


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Originally Posted by: dlm Go to Quoted Post
no, why would it? i'm not sure if that is 100% true considering the pope's fairly unpublicized positions on social issues, but even if i take your claim at face value, you don't understand how popes work. i'm not bound to support single-payer if the pope supports single-payer any more than i am bound to support his favorite soccer team. i do generally agree with him (and the church's teaching for the last 2000 years) that humans owe each other the dignity of meeting the corporal needs of all. i just go about that in ways you don't personally like.


if your way actually accomplished the task at hand, Id be ok with it.

but imagine continuing to support a failed agenda, ignoring the fact that there are better ways, in fact fighting against the change that would achieve your declared goal, or at least be better at helping more people...

that's just crazy man.
Online dlm  
#156 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:09:20 PM(UTC)
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dlm


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Originally Posted by: ronnyboy Go to Quoted Post
if your way actually accomplished the task at hand, Id be ok with it.

but imagine continuing to support a failed agenda, ignoring the fact that there are better ways, in fact fighting against the change that would achieve your declared goal, or at least be better at helping more people...

that's just crazy man.


you keep saying that your way is better, but every time something leaning toward your way is tried, it's actually not better. but this time i should believe you, right?
Online ronnyboy  
#157 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:10:36 PM(UTC)
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ronnyboy


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Originally Posted by: dlm Go to Quoted Post
never said fuck sick and/or poor people. you want me to say that because that's the cartoon character you have developed in your head. i said that me paying 4x what i used to for health care doesn't seem to be helping the sick and/or poor people that much like people said it would, so why in the fuck should i support paying 8x what i used to, or being forced onto government insurance who will deprive me of my chosen doctor who knows my family's health issues, on the *promise* that this time, it really will help the sick and/or poor people

truth is, i happen to think the sick and/or poor people (especially in this country) already have plenty of options available to them, and we should focus on connecting the resource to the need rather than squeezing more and more resources out of the middle class self-insured that never seem to make it to where it is needed anyway, and if more resources are needed, to take them from those who can afford them more than the middle class self-insured, which is a tiny little fraction of the population

you'd like for me to be the fat cat millionaire that you have caricatured into a monster so much, but i'm just not


wait, you dont think that the ACA has helped millions of people who are either poor or were ineligible for health insurance in the past?

i never thought you were a fatcat millionaire.
Online dlm  
#158 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:10:42 PM(UTC)
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dlm


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i would like to point out here that ronny has been arguing with me for 8 pages now because my admission that single-payer might be the best of several crappy options was too begrudging
thanks 1 user thanked dlm for this useful post.
Online ronnyboy  
#159 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:12:11 PM(UTC)
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ronnyboy


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Originally Posted by: dlm Go to Quoted Post
lethal force is permitted in self-defense or defense of others


great rationale for muslim suicide bombers too.

Online dlm  
#160 Posted : Tuesday, August 1, 2017 2:12:38 PM(UTC)
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dlm


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Originally Posted by: ronnyboy Go to Quoted Post
wait, you dont think that the ACA has helped millions of people who are either poor or were ineligible for health insurance in the past?

i never thought you were a fatcat millionaire.


it helped some, but not enough. right? we still need single payer, right? if we do, then it didn't help enough people, and i am personally paying a very high price for sort of helping some people.

it seems like you are saying the dick in my ass only hurts because it's not deep ENOUGH
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